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Captain Tezuka
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:02 pm

Artrain wrote:
Hmmm... wrote:

And in answer to the second lot of questions(hope it’s okay that I talk about this, you did say ‘you Christians’ but anyway, Christians believe in the Holy Trinity, which is made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e. God, Jesus. A triune God that is itself a single entity. They believe that God always existed, and his son Christ was sent to Earth at the time when he was to reaffirm people’s beliefs and to save the people. It was his death that made it possible for people to repent and have their sins forgiven. The faith is based in Christ’s teachings, but they also accept all the teachings of the Prophets that came before him.
My question is, did the Christians discover their god after Christ was born, or were they aware of him even before it? To say god always existed is very easy now. I was wondering if the people who lived in the "B.C." realized that or not. And if they did, what/how was his nature?


Yes they did.

They had prophets whom God spoke too, and They spoke of a deliverer from their suffering. Which is why the expected Christ when he came.
That's the biblical answer, anway. The one I believe. Most would likely say that the Religion was born from a radical named Jesus (I forgot the hebrew name so whatever) Who believed to have been sent from a higher power. But the Bible tells us that God told the Prophets his will, and told of the deliverer - Jesus. anser your question, Ar?



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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:33 pm

Captain Tezuka wrote:
Artrain wrote:
Hmmm... wrote:

And in answer to the second lot of questions(hope it’s okay that I talk about this, you did say ‘you Christians’ but anyway, Christians believe in the Holy Trinity, which is made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e. God, Jesus. A triune God that is itself a single entity. They believe that God always existed, and his son Christ was sent to Earth at the time when he was to reaffirm people’s beliefs and to save the people. It was his death that made it possible for people to repent and have their sins forgiven. The faith is based in Christ’s teachings, but they also accept all the teachings of the Prophets that came before him.
My question is, did the Christians discover their god after Christ was born, or were they aware of him even before it? To say god always existed is very easy now. I was wondering if the people who lived in the "B.C." realized that or not. And if they did, what/how was his nature?


Yes they did.

They had prophets whom God spoke too, and They spoke of a deliverer from their suffering. Which is why the expected Christ when he came.
That's the biblical answer, anway. The one I believe. Most would likely say that the Religion was born from a radical named Jesus (I forgot the hebrew name so whatever) Who believed to have been sent from a higher power. But the Bible tells us that God told the Prophets his will, and told of the deliverer - Jesus. anser your question, Ar?





Convenient time for your laptop to die isn't it, when you're just about to hit 'send' on a post? Ah well here goes again...

All through the Old Testemant, that is to say 'B.C' there is talk of a Messiah that will come to earth and save the people. Before the time when Christ was supposed to have been born those who later became Christians did believe in God, but Christianity itself did not exist, the people were all Jews, some of which choose to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, whilst others did not. So what I am saying, is they always believed in God, but it was a single supreme being rather than the triuine entity that Christians accept as their God today. Beforehand my opinion is that most of these people believed that he who was desribed as the 'Messiah' would not be God come to earth but rather a sort of master or all the prophets that had ever existed before him.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:08 am

Captain Tezuka wrote:

Yes they did.

They had prophets whom God spoke too, and They spoke of a deliverer from their suffering. Which is why the expected Christ when he came.
That's the biblical answer, anway. The one I believe. Most would likely say that the Religion was born from a radical named Jesus (I forgot the hebrew name so whatever) Who believed to have been sent from a higher power. But the Bible tells us that God told the Prophets his will, and told of the deliverer - Jesus. anser your question, Ar?
Yuppers, it does. So before the time of the Chirst, the people who later became Christians worshiped god without giving him any name?

Hmmm... wrote:

All through the Old Testemant, that is to say 'B.C' there is talk of a Messiah that will come to earth and save the people. Before the time when Christ was supposed to have been born those who later became Christians did believe in God, but Christianity itself did not exist, the people were all Jews, some of which choose to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, whilst others did not. So what I am saying, is they always believed in God, but it was a single supreme being rather than the triuine entity that Christians accept as their God today. Beforehand my opinion is that most of these people believed that he who was desribed as the 'Messiah' would not be God come to earth but rather a sort of master or all the prophets that had ever existed before him.
Quite understandable this. Thank you for that. Again I find it very unusual that Christianity came to be so late. You see most of the other religions, and they have always had a name for their gods before they even had a name for themselves. If I asked a person from B.C. era what was his religion, what would he say? The god that they believed in earlier, did they make any idols of him? Or temples? Or churches? Did they worship him at all, or did they simply acknowledge his existence and went about their business?

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:41 am

Artrain wrote:

Yuppers, it does. So before the time of the Chirst, the people who later became Christians worshiped god without giving him any name?

Well They called him Yahweh. Which is hebrew for Jehova.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:32 am

Aah, this is new information to me. Thank you for that. Do they still worship him in that name then?

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:24 am

Artrain wrote:

Quite understandable this. Thank you for that. Again I find it very unusual that Christianity came to be so late. You see most of the other religions, and they have always had a name for their gods before they even had a name for themselves. If I asked a person from B.C. era what was his religion, what would he say? The god that they believed in earlier, did they make any idols of him? Or temples? Or churches? Did they worship him at all, or did they simply acknowledge his existence and went about their business?

Well they would have said they were Jewish, or if you went to some other part of the world then Muslim or whatever other faiths were in existance at that time. Yes they built temples to God, there are loads of different temples throughout the Bible, some are in cities and then others are just big tents from when the Israelities were travelling to...wherever they were travelling, I don't even know now...the Promised Land, wherever that was. but yes they called them temples, they didn't really have idols, their God doesn't have an appearance really. in the Ten Commandements there is something about never building idols, but I think that's more to do with not worshiping or idolising any got other than the one God there is. Sorry, I'm not explaining very well at all right now.

They worshiped him plenty, of the 13 Israelite tribes, one entire one was devoted to being preists, to carrying about the Covenant from God, people prayed all the time, and went to the temples. All the kings in the Old Testemant were supposedly chosen by God. the whole of the Old Testemant is basically from when the creation of the world happened, up to just before the end of B.C. And the whole of the Bible then, is stories of various prophets and miracles performed by God, and how the people did wrong and then paryed to him for forgiveness, built temples etc etc. Basically thousands of years of them just worshiping about the place.

But as far as I'm concerned...we can't really know that any of that really happened. And this may offend people, and I'm sorry...but I personally don't see how the whole Bible couldn't just be made up. So we can't really know for sure whether all this worshiping actually happened, or if the prophets existed at all. Just my opinion though...
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:37 am

Artrain wrote:
Aah, this is new information to me. Thank you for that. Do they still worship him in that name then?

Yes they do, man. Even to this day.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 am

I have a question. Why would an all powerful being really care about what we humans do?
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:40 pm

Because he made us to glorify him.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:09 pm

But why would an all loving and all knowing God need subjects to glorify him?

And why would this loving God make people that didn't glorify him suffer forever hell?
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:45 am

oh yikes

Okay

we are part of the NZBU - whcih are loosely affiliated with the baptist world alliance.

what the bapos over here beleive (and as a bapo pastors wife I was required to attend baptist history classes while my better half was in seminary) has four foundational pillars

1 full imersion baptisim of consenting beleivers
2 the priesthood of all believers
3 congregational governance
4 a *high* view of scripture.


I can break any one of those down if ya like. mostly we are similar to the more moderate ( NOT conservative) southern baptists if that helps you understand any Smile


there are the three main branches of the universal christain faith. eastern orthodox stood on their own away from the catholic/unversal christaintiy pretty early on. my current studies are showing me that there is a better than even chance that they were a hang of a lot closer to the truth than the western/ roma church. (I do have credits in early church hsitory - its one of my main delights Smile )

I am mainly appreciating the orthodox understangin of the trinity/triune God which stems from the greek language over latin. - fascinating stuff when ya get down to it all.

protestants did their bit after luther threw a fit and nailed his objections to the church door Smile

someone mentioned oriental orthodox - this group is outside of my feild of study so far so I am not qualified to have an opinion on them Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:58 am

Professor Assassino wrote:
I have a question. Why would an all powerful being really care about what we humans do?
Because he Loves us like a parent does his/her children.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:17 am

because God is relational at his heart. He IS relation. Perfect relation in and of himself and with himself.

being tri-une (trinity) 3 in 1 - the perechoretic relationship that exists between the three persons of the trinity shows us exactly how relational he is. this then mirrors down onto us.

If we take into account the verses that talk about God reconciling all of the world all things everything visible and invisible to himsel f(colossions) and that God is Love. Then relationship with that which is other is what God is about. Love cannot act on itself. we cannot Love without the action being *other-wards*. This requires an *other* Smile

Just as we cannot know who we are without other to know what we are not - but this gets into philosophy


did that just confuzzel the question further?
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:11 am

To a point I catch your meaning. But if this god really wanted to interact with others, wouldn't he had made them so that they could speak to him, se him and touch him? Why is he a he anyway?

And why, if he loves us would he condeem those who not belive to suffer forever in hell?

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:39 pm

He cannot touch us because we have been corrupted by Satan (an angel who turned against God if you did not know) it would kill us if he did. We call him a he Because Jesus his son (also part of the triune) came down to eart and was born here as a male (I believe that is part of it anyway)

On the Hell thing. I and my church Do Not Believe in an Eternal Hell, many churches will argue otherwise but God is not cruel and he could not torture people forever. The place most people get the idea of Hell is that God will cast Satan into the lake of fire. I believe that the 'lake of fire' is when he cleanses the Earth with fire and remakes it much as he did with the World wide flood. The heat in fact will be so strong that people that do not believe or refused would just die instantly not being tortured forever. Smile hope that helps
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:09 pm

I have another question. There are believed to be in between 5 to 30 million species of life forms on the planet. If your god made us in his image, who made them?

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:15 pm

He did. We are the caretakers of the lower life forms that he created.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:28 pm

Why are they lower than us?

Quote :
He cannot touch us because we have been corrupted by Satan
He is all powerfull you say. Why don't he just un-corrupt us?
Quote :
(an angel who turned against God if you did not know)
That's what the present day church says I know. However, when it was written he was more of a servant of god.
Quote :
it would kill us if he did.
If he's all powerfull I guess he would decide that.
Quote :
We call him a he Because Jesus his son (also part of the triune) came down to eart and was born here as a male (I believe that is part of it anyway)
The Jews have the same god and call him a him. The muslimes too. So Jesus isn't the reason.
Quote :
On the Hell thing. I and my church Do Not Believe in an Eternal Hell, many churches will argue otherwise but God is not cruel and he could not torture people forever.

well that's good. The enternal hell idea was added in the 1300 by the way.
Quote :
The place most people get the idea of Hell is that God will cast Satan into the lake of fire.
Was no lake of fire in the original writings I can assure you.
Quote :
I believe that the 'lake of fire' is when he cleanses the Earth with fire and remakes it much as he did with the World wide flood.
That's another thing that dosn't sit right with me. If there was a giant flood covering the whole earth some thousand years ago, we would have had proof of it.
Quote :
The heat in fact will be so strong that people that do not believe or refused would just die instantly not being tortured forever.

While people who belived go the heaven is that it? But isn't the Christian belife that you carry on living some kind of afterlife after death? So the people who gets "killed" in the fire, what happens to them?
Quote :
hope that helps
A bit.

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:18 pm

Professor Assassino wrote:
Why are they lower than us?


Because we have souls. They don't.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:42 pm

Albus Dumbledore wrote:
He did. We are the caretakers of the lower life forms that he created.
At the rate we are going, humans are responsible for extinction on one species every 20 minutes or so. I don't think we can take care of anybody but ourselves to be honest...

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:27 pm

Captain Tezuka wrote:
Professor Assassino wrote:
Why are they lower than us?


Because we have souls. They don't.

How can you know that. Other than our inteligence there is nothing special about us.

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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:11 pm

Captain Tezuka wrote:
Artrain wrote:

Yuppers, it does. So before the time of the Chirst, the people who later became Christians worshiped god without giving him any name?

Well They called him Yahweh. Which is hebrew for Jehova.

Elohim
Elshaddai

there are many different names that the God of Abraham has been known by.

if you look at the original languages - *in the beginning God created* the pronoun used there is Elohim
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:14 pm

Professor Assassino wrote:
Captain Tezuka wrote:
Professor Assassino wrote:
Why are they lower than us?


Because we have souls. They don't.

How can you know that. Other than our inteligence there is nothing special about us.

It is relationality that distinguishes us from other creatures. This is a part of the Imago Dei, or the image of God in which we are created.

Scientifically there are other things - I am only just looking at brain science now. Fascinating stuff though.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:15 pm

Harry Potter wrote:
Albus Dumbledore wrote:
He did. We are the caretakers of the lower life forms that he created.
At the rate we are going, humans are responsible for extinction on one species every 20 minutes or so. I don't think we can take care of anybody but ourselves to be honest...

I am not so sure that we are doing a gret job of that to be honest.
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PostSubject: Re: Christianity   Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:30 pm

He is all powerfull you say. Why don't he just un-corrupt us?
Because Satan would then say that God cheated. Satan said God was not trustworthy, Kind, Just exc... God then created us and allowed Satan to tempt us and we became not evil but able to do evil. God then sent Jesus to earth. He was born and commited no sin in his life and then was crucified on the Cross to save us from our sins. Any who ask God to forgive them of their sins, he will and Jesus will erase the sins forever.

That's what the present day church says I know. However, when it was written he was more of a servant of god.
He was the Arch Angel and leader of the Heavenly Choir

If he's all powerfull I guess he would decide that.
Actually it is because he is so powerful. It would kill us because Sin cannot be in his presence. The closest person to see him was Moses I believe other than Adam and Eve. Moses asked to see God and God explained why he could not see his face but showed Moses his back instead.

well that's good. The enternal hell idea was added in the 1300 by the way. Yeah I do not know where they get that we will burn forever it does not say so in the Bible.


That's another thing that dosn't sit right with me. If there was a giant flood covering the whole earth some thousand years ago, we would have had proof of it.
Ummm Dude there is proof everywhere! Why do we have seashells on tops of mountains? The Grand Canyon. All of the Fossils out there are proof that there was a world wide flood. Fossils are not easy to create it takes catastrophic events like a flood and the animals being buried Instantly with Earth and mud without fresh oxygen to rot the flesh of the animals. A flood would do that especially a world wide one.

While people who belived go the heaven is that it? But isn't the Christian belife that you carry on living some kind of afterlife after death? So the people who gets "killed" in the fire, what happens to them?
They die God does not resurrect them.


At the rate we are going, humans are responsible for extinction on one species every 20 minutes or so. I don't think we can take care of anybody but ourselves to be honest...
Not now no. But before Adam and Eve were Tempted by Satan they were the caretakers of the animals.


How can you know that. Other than our inteligence there is nothing special about us.
Ummm our Intelligence... We are the smartest beings on the planet. And as Spencer wrote we do a have a soul. We can decide right and wrong. Make decisions...exc...



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